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On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
KiddoCabbusses Offline
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Post: #1
On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
Since I was PMed with some questions regarding whether certain projects, I figured this little update would be a good idea.

There are some people who may be confused as worried over which projects would be "risky". I admit, I'm not entirely certain myself, but I can at least try putting this up to give an idea which projects would be certainly safe.

I have decided to give a list of questions you should ask about a project submission when evaluating the DMCA risk.
  • Is this project based on a first-party Nintendo or Game Freak IP? (The answer is most likely yes, but believe it or not, one of the people who have asked me is an exception to this!)
  • Is this project a remake of a preexistiing commercial game?
  • Is this project directly assets from a preexisting commercial game with little to no modification? (Particularly in a manner where they are easy to spot)
  • Is the project of a quality level that could be seen as competing with the commercial games?
  • Is the project one that has a lot of social media attention already? If not, how likely is it that it could suddenly gain such attention, especially if in a way that one person can't control?
  • Is the project on gamejolt? And/or is the project being monetized in any manner otherwise?

Ultimately I would say that if you answer "Yes" to more than two of these, you may want to discuss your submission to me beforehand. Thank you in advance.
09-10-2016 04:47 PM
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CM30 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-10-2016 04:47 PM)KiddoCabbusses Wrote:  Since I was PMed with some questions regarding whether certain projects, I figured this little update would be a good idea.

There are some people who may be confused as worried over which projects would be "risky". I admit, I'm not entirely certain myself, but I can at least try putting this up to give an idea which projects would be certainly safe.

I have decided to give a list of questions you should ask about a project submission when evaluating the DMCA risk.
  • Is this project based on a first-party Nintendo or Game Freak IP? (The answer is most likely yes, but believe it or not, one of the people who have asked me is an exception to this!)
  • Is this project a remake of a preexistiing commercial game?
  • Is this project directly assets from a preexisting commercial game with little to no modification? (Particularly in a manner where they are easy to spot)
  • Is the project of a quality level that could be seen as competing with the commercial games?
  • Is the project one that has a lot of social media attention already? If not, how likely is it that it could suddenly gain such attention, especially if in a way that one person can't control?
  • Is the project on gamejolt? And/or is the project being monetized in any manner otherwise?

Ultimately I would say that if you answer "Yes" to more than two of these, you may want to discuss your submission to me beforehand. Thank you in advance.

Can you clarify some of these points?

Is this project directly assets from a preexisting commercial game with little to no modification? (Particularly in a manner where they are easy to spot)

For example, what's that mean? Almost every fan game and mod has ripped graphics in some form. Does this mean any use of ripped graphics? Only ripped graphics? Mostly graphics in one style? Something else?

Is the project of a quality level that could be seen as competing with the commercial games?

And what about this? What level we talking? Psycho Waluigi level? Second Reality Project Reloaded level? URA Zelda level?

s the project one that has a lot of social media attention already? If not, how likely is it that it could suddenly gain such attention, especially if in a way that one person can't control?

So what does this mean for Fusion Fangaming projects? Mario Fusion, Mushroom Kingdom Fusion and others already have a lot of attention and have for nearly a decade now.

Any answers?

Want to read interviews about fan games or interesting opinion pieces about the gaming world? If so, check out Gaming Reinvented today!

And if you're a Wario fan, you should definitely check out Wario Forums.
09-12-2016 07:33 PM
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PJCLink Offline
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Post: #3
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-10-2016 04:47 PM)KiddoCabbusses Wrote:  
  • Is this project based on a first-party Nintendo or Game Freak IP? (The answer is most likely yes, but believe it or not, one of the people who have asked me is an exception to this!)
  • Is this project a remake of a preexistiing commercial game?
  • Is this project directly assets from a preexisting commercial game with little to no modification? (Particularly in a manner where they are easy to spot)
  • Is the project of a quality level that could be seen as competing with the commercial games?
  • Is the project one that has a lot of social media attention already? If not, how likely is it that it could suddenly gain such attention, especially if in a way that one person can't control?
  • Is the project on gamejolt? And/or is the project being monetized in any manner otherwise?

Both my Netherforce Shards and Time Crystal Zelda fangames answer yes to question number one (top one) obviously. Also, no for number 5 (second to bottom one), no for number 6 (bottom one), no for number 2. Mostly only Time Crystal says yes for number 3, though Netherforce Shards also uses a pre-existing asset, it is more custom graphically than Time Crystal.

And I'm not sure how to answer to number 4. Mainly cause I'm sure I know what you mean by that question. Do you mean the quality of present and known upcoming games of today, or all existing games, past, present, and currently known upcoming?

Also, do you think my think my fangames would be fine for NCFC this year?

New Zelda trailer: coming soon!

My booth: coming soon!
09-12-2016 11:17 PM
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onpon4 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
The "quality" thing is probably not the best factor to look at. Personally, and I know a lot of people here will disagree with me, but I think the original Super Mario Bros engine is terrible and just about any platformer has a better quality one. Point being, there's a lot of subjectivity to what has better "quality". I think it would be better to look at how comparable the fangame is to official games; even if the SMB engine is terrible, a game that is too similar to SMB might be something Nintendo would attack.

My website: https://onpon4.github.io

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(This post was last modified: 09-13-2016 07:43 PM by onpon4.)
09-13-2016 07:42 PM
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-Rayo- Offline
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Post: #5
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
Had Nintendo lawyers filed a takedown request under DMCA in the past here in NCFC? I know they removed 542 fangames on gamejolt but here?
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2016 04:04 AM by -Rayo-.)
09-14-2016 04:03 AM
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PJCLink Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-14-2016 04:03 AM)-Rayo- Wrote:  Had Nintendo lawyers filed a takedown request under DMCA in the past here in NCFC? I know they removed 542 fangames on gamejolt but here?

No, they really haven't yet, fortunately. However, they did DMCA that AM2R fan remake of Metroid II by DoctorM64, which did have a booth multiple times on this site in the past. Though it wasn't during an NCFC event, so it didn't really count. So, sadly, this could mean the Nintendo is getting closer to eventually start DMCA-ing Nintendo fangames on here during NCFC events. (in which, hopefully doesn't happen cause that would be scary Nail Biting)

Which is why everyone here is starting to get cautious about the whole Nintendo misusing DMCA without a care in the world all of a sudden, mainly because of what happened to AM2R.

So, all we can do right now, is hope for the best that Nintendo does not find this site as a huge nest full of targets to attack. Worried

New Zelda trailer: coming soon!

My booth: coming soon!
09-14-2016 08:01 AM
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-Rayo- Offline
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Post: #7
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
So, I would say a DMCA risk only exists if a game gets very popular like AM2R or Pokemon Uranium with 1.500.000 downloads. But games that didn't receive attention yet should be save.
Anyway, I will participate this year, better have some attention than no attention.
09-14-2016 10:31 AM
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PJCLink Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-14-2016 10:31 AM)-Rayo- Wrote:  So, I would say a DMCA risk only exists if a game gets very popular like AM2R or Pokemon Uranium with 1.500.000 downloads. But games that didn't receive attention yet should be save.
Anyway, I will participate this year, better have some attention than no attention.

AM2R was DMCA'd because it was a third-party copycat of Metroid II made without permission and also likely because money may been involved. And Pokemon Uranium was DMCA'd because money was involved.

If you're making any sort profit from your fangame, like receiving donations of some sort, or your fangame is copycat of an already existing game, then your fangame very likely a target of a DMCA.

Which is why I always make sure my fan concepts are as original as possible and don't involve money.

New Zelda trailer: coming soon!

My booth: coming soon!
09-14-2016 06:55 PM
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KiddoCabbusses Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-12-2016 07:33 PM)CM30 Wrote:  Can you clarify some of these points?

One of the unfortunate things with this whole situation is that it is really hard to clarify and, quite frankly, at the end I'll probably have to consider each entry on a case-by-case basis anyway. I was just hoping to see whether that post would bring up some quality discussion on the manner.

AM2R and Pokemon Uranium ultimately got DMCA'd because they had a huge public social media reception, so I was hoping I could deal with just having NCFC be very down-low this year. However, after the gamejolt DMCAs, I feel like simply running the event at all is a risk (And there are several parties that I would have wanted to invite this year which I ultimately canceled plans on because of DMCA concerns, as well). If I didn't have personal/sentimental investments in making the event happen, I'd probably have canceled it. But as-is, I'm seeing this through and hoping for the best.

I'm sorry that I can't be more clear on this. It's because of the context of the situation, and the hope that next year we will not have to worry about this.
09-14-2016 11:17 PM
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Magnemania Offline
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Post: #10
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
With all the anxiety over the potential for DMCAs, it seems a bit questionable as to whether it's worth it to make a booth at all. From what I understand, NCFC hasn't been getting an exceptional amount of traffic in recent years and this seems like a comparably high-risk, low-publicity action to take.
09-15-2016 08:55 PM
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onpon4 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
If that's how you feel, don't make fangames. Nintendo's attacks are not on NCFC, they're on fangames. There is no reason to believe you will be more likely to be targeted by being on NCFC.

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09-15-2016 09:53 PM
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Magnemania Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
Nintendo's lawyers' attacks are on whichever fangames attain high popularity in the general public eye. It's possible for a fangame to become popular among a small subgroup of people without it becoming well-known to the public (Sonic Robo Blast 2 comes to mind). A general Nintendo fangaming convention should have a fairly wide profile compared to the audiences for the individual games involved.

All publicity increases risk, but different types of publicity induce different amounts of risk. No Mario's Sky was shut down because it gained a lot of publicity in the general gaming public in a short time. Pokemon Uranium was shut down for having a massive userbase. The Metroid 2 remake was shut down when it had a publicity spike at release. They all had other factors that made them slightly more dangerous in the eyes of NoA's legal department: NMS was named after an unassociated brand, PU's name was too close to the naming conventions of official titles, M2R was a remake, but a publicity spike was what ultimately did them in.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2016 11:50 AM by Magnemania.)
09-16-2016 11:47 AM
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onpon4 Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
NCFC is not very much publicity at all. You get a lot more from being on MFGG.

My website: https://onpon4.github.io

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09-16-2016 01:55 PM
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PJCLink Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(09-16-2016 11:47 AM)Magnemania Wrote:  Nintendo's lawyers' attacks are on whichever fangames attain high popularity in the general public eye. It's possible for a fangame to become popular among a small subgroup of people without it becoming well-known to the public (Sonic Robo Blast 2 comes to mind). A general Nintendo fangaming convention should have a fairly wide profile compared to the audiences for the individual games involved.

All publicity increases risk, but different types of publicity induce different amounts of risk. No Mario's Sky was shut down because it gained a lot of publicity in the general gaming public in a short time. Pokemon Uranium was shut down for having a massive userbase. The Metroid 2 remake was shut down when it had a publicity spike at release. They all had other factors that made them slightly more dangerous in the eyes of NoA's legal department: NMS was named after an unassociated brand, PU's name was too close to the naming conventions of official titles, M2R was a remake, but a publicity spike was what ultimately did them in.

Here's a fan project that is extremely very popular throughout practically most social media sites (Youtube, Facebook, Deviantart, Twitter, Tumblr, Google Plus, Pinterest, and etc come to mind) , fansites (Zelda Dungeon, Zelda Universe, Zelda Informer, Zelda Eternity, Knights of Hyrule, etc.), and various other sites and is still standing strong to this day:

Hyrule Total War

Hyrule Total War is become so popular that it's practically overrated now. Like, seriously, the hype over that fan-project is so high and great that Nintendo don't even dare mess with that!

So how can you say that publicity and popularity increases the risk of DMCA when Hyrule Total War literally proves otherwise? You shouldn't! There's no reason to! I say this cause Hyrule Total War, without a doubt, literally proves that popularity/publicity is a strength, not a weakness.

Anyways, you're free to believe what you want. I'm just a messenger letting people who may not know about Hyrule Total War (or that it's still standing at least), know that Hyrule Total War is a popular thing and it's still standing tall. And I'm saying this since, there's talk as if popularity is what causes a DMCA on fan projects, when that's proven wrong with the existence of Hyrule Total War, which is still standing.

What really causes DMCA on fan projects is:

  1. Money Involvement
  2. Complete Existing Game Replication AKA Copycat Forging (AM2R comes to mind)
  3. No Credit to the Original/Official Owners (In this kind of case, Nintendo usually comes to mind when thinking original/official owners)
  4. Too much ambition or any sort of lack of the sense that the project is just for fun (best example being kickstarter projects)
  5. Lack of Creativity, Imagination, and Innovation (basically in this case, mainly, the lack of originality)
  6. Lack of enough popularity to back or support it.


Which is why my advice on how to insure that your fan project are safe is:

  1. Give Credit to Original/Official Owners! (Ex: Nintendo)
  2. Be as original possible! (don't copy too much from already existing games)
  3. Have fun with your fan project! (make sure everyone knows that your fanproject is not anything official but rather something that is purely fanmade just for fun)
  4. Make sure your fan project is absolutely 100% free! Don't use your fan project for money! (that will make you look greedy and rub you off the wrong way with original/official owners, which you do not want)
  5. Have confidence and faith in yourself and your fan project! Be happy and friendly to everyone who checks out your fan work. And Spread the Word! (this would help give your fan project a lot popularity and support, which can prove to be very helpful if gather enough)
  6. Be Creative, Imaginative, and Innovative! And be yourself! (this would help with the originality part)


I work hard to try and by these methods, which is one the reasons my fan projects are still pretty much safe to this day. And hopefully it will stay that way and that they would stay safe for many more years.

Anyways, that's my opinion and what I believe. Like I said, you can believe what you want. You are free to own belief(s). I'm just sharing this information of a way trying to be helpful and in hopes of being helpful in any way.

Again, you don't have to believe in any of this. I'm just sharing some information, advice, and ideas that I feel and hope may be prove to be very helpful to people, at least in the sometime in the near or far future.

Well, anyways, that would be all for now.

New Zelda trailer: coming soon!

My booth: coming soon!
09-16-2016 02:06 PM
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Gumstone1080 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
Pokemon Uranium comes into question now and it was given a threatening message, low key, prompting them to remove their download.
09-16-2016 07:53 PM
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thefallenalchemist Offline
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Post: #16
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
To be completely honest, even holding this event is ridiculously risky right now. Just because Nintendo hasn't struck yet, doesn't mean that they won't. Chances are that Nintendo's lawyers are well aware of this event and have seen the connection between this event and Gamejolt games. Keep in mind what happened with Mario's Sky as well. They are literally just looking for copyrighted product infringement right now and I would not be surprised when they come full-force as soon as the event opens.

I hate this, because I've been playing these games for twenty years now. I've seen a lot of these events, and never did I think Nintendo would ever bite back as hard as they have right now. I'm going to offer this as a warning: If anyone here plans to post a game with any copyrighted Nintendo character, even if you drew all of it yourself - expect a DMCA notice. As small as this event is, we have fans who are bloggers. Those bloggers sometimes write articles that appear on social media and all it takes is for one article to reach Nintendo.

This was much easier to hide before social media blew up, but now that it has, I think you all might have better luck trying to rob a bank or something. It's just too risky right now and I personally don't feel the event will last as it normally does. I usually drink out of the cup of optimism, but this time I feel I might have to drink out of the pessimist cup of realism. Nintendo no longer cares about it's fans apparently, or your tributes. Which is a literal shame.
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2016 04:09 PM by thefallenalchemist.)
10-01-2016 04:07 PM
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onpon4 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
thefallenalchemist, the event has been running. In fact, it's almost over.

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10-01-2016 04:13 PM
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thefallenalchemist Offline
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RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
Oh, poop. I had no idea. Well, then a bullet was dodged. My apologies. :)
10-01-2016 07:17 PM
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Gumstone1080 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: On what would classify as a "DMCA risk".
(10-01-2016 04:13 PM)onpon4 Wrote:  thefallenalchemist, the event has been running. In fact, it's almost over.

Seconded.
10-02-2016 08:53 AM
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